Mereth, I agree that by switching the polarity like that, things may come to us, rather than us trying to be heard, which always feels a little pathetic and weedy when I see people trying to do it.

Thank you for your kind words.

“PAGANISM : The umbrella term for spiritualities and religions that recognise the sacred in nature, the environment, ancestry and heritage.”

Would make Buddhists, Jain and most other world religions Pagan. There isn’t one system I can think of that doesn’t recognise the sacred in nature, whether is is the way I do as a Witch or whether it is the way a Christian would, as a manifestation of the creation of their God. The definition, while not offensive, is so vague and woolly that it could be applied to anyone.

It seems to me that in defining a pagan in such a loose way, in order to accommodate the many differing systems within the ‘umbrella term’, they have most ably demonstrated that they’re trying to do something that isn’t going to please or satisfy most of the people they hope to define.

As for dialogue with government, the best way to achieve that successfully is for the movement to which we belong to become so pervasive and strong that the Government seek us out. All other attempts are only ever going to be sops to what they consider an irrelevance. That’s just my view.

I suppose the fact is that if the enthusiasts – fanatics! – wish to ‘represent’ me they can go ahead and try, but they’ll be shouting one way and I’ll be quietly going another.

You are right to draw attention to disturbing trends in Paganism which might lead to straw men being erected… however, I’ve had a look at the premises on the Pebble site and they seem straightforward enough to me. If these folk continue to work to the furtherance of any kind of understanding of alternative spirituality, it is surely better for the general pagan population than not bothering? I’m not going to run out and join them, but I don’t mind them having a go.

As an umbrella organisation they’ve got the unenviable task of having to appeal to everyone, including the audience for the spin project. I wouldn’t want to have to come up with a set of defining principles for that mission myself!

I don’t find these organisations sinister, just not relevant to me personally.

Thank you for posting and I hope to see you here again.

“PAGANISM : The umbrella term for spiritualities and religions that recognise the sacred in nature, the environment, ancestry and heritage.”>

As you can see, no mention of Goddesses or Gods.

So far the UK experiment with a pagan hierarchy has effected no changes in the way pagans are regarded by the government which was not already addressed by UK treaties, rulings and laws and achieved nothing which may not be achieved by individual pagans acting as citizens, parents and tax-payers. What it has done, however, is to create straw men of things like reburial of pre-Christian remains, lexicography and chaplaincy, non-issues which while interesting to core members of pebble and looking good on curriculum vitae are completely irrelevant to everyday life as a modern, Western pagan. Their consultation with sundry organisations of the British government are a waste of tax-payers’ money and serve only to present British pagans as something they are – in the vast majority – not.

I would recommend that any pagan who cherishes their freedom of belief and practice resist any attempts to be represented to their government or society by unelected enthusiasts.

(Duplicated in an attempt to make sense of the tag guide given above the post box – no preview available that I can see. Apologies.)

I suspect, few. My self included! However, the difference between proselytising (henceforth P) and education is choice. Choose to go see someone and listen to what they have to say comes under the heading of education in my book, although see below.

P is telling people about something whether they want to hear it or not, because you have an assumed divine mandate.

I’m curious to know how many of those that object to what is proposed are from the United States. If you are from the US, are you aware that not so long ago our president attempted to keep anyone calling themselves Wiccan or practicing witchcraft from so called “faith based” funding? The foundation of religious beliefs in the United States is fearful, right wing Protestants. We are not even 150 years out of the Civil War that ended the enslavement of an entire race in this land. Organizing for the sake of education and tolerance can only be beneficial to those who would like to openly declare beliefs, no matter what they are, or simply breathe more easily when they decide to go against the grain.

Pagans and political activists in Great Britain are only too well aware of the sinister creep of the religious totalitarianism explicitly banned under your constitution, but now supported countrywide by powerful interests. I read this week on The Wild Hunt about the enforced Christian propaganda being taught in schools by teachers unqualified in comparative religious instruction. They’re not just supporting Christianity, they’re denigrating other faiths. I haven’t ever minimised the effects of this hegemony, not underestimated the effect it has on those trying for religious freedom under its yoke. As I said on MFTRW’s blog, I welcome the efforts to give paganism a voice, but not any effort that might see paganism take on the methods of the religious right to get its point across. Just my opinion.

And why would it be so bad if there were someone standing in front of the world, saying positive things about what we all claim to be?

It wouldn’t be. And it is already happening, and good results are coming from it – slowly, true, but it will change and gather momentum. Your efforts, if well-directed, can only help this process.

Mysticism and mystery cannot be taught in the open, but a belief system, “pagan religion” or spirituality, can be explained loosely. There ARE unifying characteristics of the beliefs of pagans simply by the fact that all those who call themselves pagan do so for a set of reasons, b/c the denotation and connotation of the word fits what they are. We follow nature, the cycles of the Sun, Moon and Earth, we are generally polytheistic, and incorporate animism and ancestor worship, and are typically studying or incorporating some aspect of European mythology.

Agreed.

Anyone can call themselves Christian if they 1) believe that Christ was the son of God and Savior and 2) follow some variation of the teachings of Christ, but the dozens and dozens of denominations of Christianity in this country demonstrate that they are just as varied as we are. Does the fact that Christianity as a religion has the Ten Commandments, believes that Christ was the Savior, and preaches the teachings of Christ limit any Baptist minister to the practices of Catholicism?

It feels to me that there is a significant amount of judgment from those that are contemplating the notion of others WANTING to feel safe about being openly pagan and that if your beliefs were truly grounded, you would have no fear of an organization loosely defining paganism for the sake of educating the public and teaching tolerance.

Judgement? No, opinion. I’m not qualified to judge you, or anyone else. This is the crucial difference between ‘us’ and Christianity, for example. The odious practice of calling Christians who haven’t been at it as long as the next guy ‘Baby Christians’, as if they hadn’t yet collected enough Jesus Points should never be allowed to take a hold in the pagan world.

My main point in questioning the correctness of the path suggested boils down to the misuse of power. In the end, if someone’s in charge, who’s in charge of them?